The 5 Steps to Effective Conflict Resolution with Jerry Fu

In this episode, host Magic Barclay holds an insightful conversation with Jerry Fu - a conflict resolution coach serving Asian American leaders. Jerry starts by revealing his backstory, sharing how he transitioned from a pharmacist to a leadership coach. He delves into his personal journey of developing a passion for salsa dancing and how it built his confidence. The conversation steers towards Jerry's focus on Asian American leaders and understanding the unique challenges they face. Jerry shares stories illustrating cultural stereotypes and microaggressions he and others faced. The chat turns back to his conflict resolution coaching and how it supports not just physical, but also emotional and spiritual health. Jerry outlines a clear five-step conflict resolution approach applicable to various contexts. The episode wraps up acknowledging the importance of allowing ourselves to be 'work in progress' while aiming to improve through struggle and adversity.

Get your own copy of Jerry's 5-step framework for making hard conversations less hard at his website: https://www.adaptingleaders.com/guide

Transcript

Magic Barclay: 1:00

Welcome back to a magical life. I'm your host magic. Barclay. Today. Our guest is Jerry Fu. Jerry is a conflict resolution coach for Asian American leaders. He started coaching back in 2017 to help other Asian American professionals. Deal with the challenges they encounter at work with their families and within themselves. Prior to starting his coaching business, Jerry worked as a pharmacist and began facilitating leadership workshops in 2012. Today, Jerry offers a range of coaching services, which include individual coaching, Group workshops and keynote presentations. In his free time, Jerry enjoys travel, trying new restaurants, and lots and lots of salsa dancing. Welcome, Jerry!

Jerry Fu: 1:52

Hey Magic, good to have, good to be here.

Magic Barclay: 1:54

It's a pleasure to have you here. So, salsa dancing, what got you

1:58

into

Jerry Fu: 1:59

that? Peer pressure. Ha ha ha, half kidding. the long journey is this, I first learned about salsa dancing my freshman year in college. And there was a spring formal that they had built around a theme of salsa dancing. They taught us a lesson in preparation for the dancing, but what I didn't know was that it was actually a really bad lesson. And so the problem is, is that if you don't know you're getting a bad lesson, you just think you're bad at it, right? And so, When the actual formal came, me and my date were just sitting there trying it out, and it was just boring and frustrating, so I just said, you know what, I just must not be very good at this, and I don't know if I'll ever be good at this, so I'm just going to shelve it forever. And it wasn't until midway through pharmacy school where a friend of mine, uh, had a friend who was trying to start the salsa scene up Memphis where I was in pharmacy school, and she said, oh, you have to give it another chance. and so I put down some money for real lessons because by now my grades had kind of gelled to a point where I wasn't worried about spending an extra night out a week just to take a break. And, um, actually got to a point where I really started to enjoy it, started to get the hang of it. And then I graduated and moved to a city with no salsa dancing. So I went through this really unproductive cycle of rust and lack of confidence, but I missed it. And so there will be flashes here and there of the kind of dancer I could become, but it wasn't consistent enough for me to really put the work into it. And it wasn't until even after I moved back to Houston, most of the friends that I met when I moved back to Houston 12 years ago were into country dancing, but not salsa. And so this is still just a very dormant skillset. And then about eight years ago, I tell people, a friend invited me out to a free salsa dancing events. in downtown Houston and it took one skilled pretty blonde for me to say, you know what, I'm going to bring my a game so I can dance with her. And, uh, she gave me a hug afterward and everything just locked in. And I was asking myself why I stayed away from this for so long, just because I was so self conscious about my own dancing. And, so from there, I just said, you know what, I need to make this a regular, routine and hobby again. And it's just been wonderful ever since.

Magic Barclay: 4:13

I love that. Now your niche is quite specific. So Asian American leaders, not being of a minority myself, I can only assume that when people are in a. A racial minority that things can be a lot harder to maybe connect with other people to move forward in, in the mainstream realm. Is that correct?

Jerry Fu: 4:43

Yeah. Um, Oftentimes, you know, people feel like they may be overlooked, or, you know, if they're not, feeling like a part of the tribe, you know, or the people in charge, then, yeah, it can be an uphill battle for sure, despite resumes to the contrary. And so

Magic Barclay: 4:59

that leads me to our first question. I'm guessing that there's extra pressure, extra stress. And we know that affects health. So what can your expertise do to accelerate health, not just physical, but also emotional and spiritual

Jerry Fu: 5:14

health? Yeah. Yeah. it's definitely a tie in that the two are definitely connected, I think. What I've noticed with people I know in my own life and journey, you need a certain level of stress to be productive, but after that stress crosses a certain threshold, or if the source of that stress is not, one that is helping you be productive, then it can actually serve as a distraction, right? It pulls away from creative energy and productive and positive energy. And because if that stress is coming from a broken relationship, like you have a boss that takes credit for your work all the time, right? Or you have direct reports that are not pulling their weight or you're dealing with family that thinks you should be on a different career path, right? yeah, it's it's totally a negative effect on your health and well being if you have. Relationships that are not bringing out the best in you.

Magic Barclay: 6:11

Definitely. Now, our second standard question is about wealth. And people think wealth is just financial, but it's also emotional and personal wealth. So what are your top three tips to creating wealth?

Jerry Fu: 6:27

Yeah. I think the first tip, if I had to articulate this, the first tip is to figure out What, you know, what is important to you? Right? Is it free time? Is it certain relationships? You know, what are you willing to say yes to? And what are you willing to say no to? Right? Because if you say no to yourself to a point where you have nothing left to give, right, your energy is at low focus, you're tired, then that's not, wealthy, right? Um, it's not physically wealthy. And so, the first thing I would ask people, yeah, what are your boundaries, right, to, to create that wealth? Um, the second is, yeah, what makes you feel wealthy? Is it a big bank account? We know this for, you know, that's, that can help, but that's not the ultimate goal, right? you know, is it free time on the weekends where you can spend time with people that are important to you? Is it. being at a job where you feel like it's making a difference in the world and not just, you know, helping your bottom line. and then the third tip I would say is, what kind of system do you have in place, to make sure that when you start to feel, emotionally or physically or spiritually poor, how do you recover? so that you can, uh, minimize the damage done.

Magic Barclay: 7:49

And that damage can be exponential. So once you're in that place, you know, your wealth will continue to suffer because you don't have positive momentum. Exactly. How does that affect the people that you're working with every day? Like, are you seeing that there are stereotypes or, perceived ideas that is affecting

Jerry Fu: 8:14

them? Yeah, um, let's unpack a specific example just to make sure this isn't in vague terms. So I'll give an example of something. Let me give you two stories to contrast. The first happened while I was in high school. Where I happen to be playing hacky sack or foot bag or whoever you want to call it after school with some friends. And so a lot of teachers didn't like us playing this hacky sack because it was just noisy and they just, they just found it annoying or whatever. So during school, they would confiscate it during classes, they would confiscate it, but then after school, you know, it shouldn't matter, right. Except that, one time when me and my friends were playing after school, some, Older white teachers came up to me as if they were going to confiscate it. And so, you know, we made the case, Hey, you know, we're not bothering anybody. Why, why is this such a problem? And one of them notices as I'm making the case that I'm wearing a t shirt with some artwork with two sumo wrestlers who are sparring for those of you who. aren't immediately familiar with sumo wrestling, uh, the garb is very revealing, right? Basically, it looks like, you know, for lack of a better term, it looks like a diaper, basically, you know, on, on these, on these, uh, large and, uh, you know, portly men. And so, she tugs at my shirt, shows the other teacher, and she says, you know, Can you believe he would wear something like this to school? And I said, what's the problem? It's an ancient Japanese tradition. I'm Taiwanese, but the shirt is Japanese art. And the other lady says, well, turn your Japanese tradition inside out. Ha ha ha ha. And they both walk off laughing. And, you know, what am I supposed to do in this situation, right? I am just this frail Asian kid in a predominantly white high school. You know, am I going to find any sympathy or support? for this kind of disparaging remark, so contrast this with a scenario that I encountered a couple of years ago in the heart of the pandemic, right around the time of the Asian hate crimes in Atlanta, actually, and so I happen to be at a multicultural networking event. And I met an older white gentleman there, and we'll call him, we'll call him Tim. And so, He introduces himself, Tim's a nice guy. And he goes, Jerry, let me ask you something. You know, you're an Asian, you know, with these hate crimes, like, is it really that big a deal? Like, have you dealt with anything? and I said to myself, well, let me see which angle he's trying to take when he's trying to bring this up, right. maybe he is just saying, is the media just really making a big scene out of nothing because they're just trying to play up ratings, or, you know, or is there really something to this and, people are dying, right? So it's never, something to downplay, so this is what I told him, right? I asked him, you know, may I share a story with you? And he says, well, yeah, sure. I said, did you know? That Houston's Chinatown is built on discrimination. I said, really? What do you mean by that? I said, well, at one point, the city officials felt like all the immigrants were a threat to the status quo of the city. So they sequestered them all in the southwest part of the city. And to add insult to injury, they drew up their district in such a way that they didn't even have a vote. I said, that's not very good. They said, no, it's not. So, have I experienced any physical violence or disparaging remarks? No, and I'm thankful. And there is a bigger system of discrimination that is not okay just because people are not suffering physical violence. It's like, oh, and I'm not here to embarrass him, right? I'm not here to put him on the spot. I just wanted to stretch him, right? And with enough coaching, my goal is to help other clients like Asian American leaders to be able to be their own advocates and to find their own voice. And so when situations like this come up, they don't have to be deferential and say, well, maybe he didn't really mean it in a hurtful way. Or maybe. now it's not the best time to bring it up that, you know, maybe what he said was hurtful, they can step into a situation and, again, they're not here to embarrass anybody and they want to challenge them lovingly, right? To be sure to say, Hey, you know, even if your intent was not to cause problems, here's the impact that your statements had, and maybe there's a better way to convey your thoughts without needlessly stepping on cultural tripwires.

Magic Barclay: 12:31

I think many different cultures have faced something similar. I was born to a Jewish family and I remember, going to our version of Sunday school and seeing armed guards, not understanding that there was a real threat to us as children because of the religion we were born into and really just not being able to comprehend as a child, what was happening. And then seeing that, you know, through primary school when it was, don't tell anyone that. We're Jewish because you could be a target. So I think, you know, a lot of different groups have felt this and we're seeing it today. I've done a number of podcasts on segregation. We're seeing it today on medical matters, and we don't seem to be learning from this, that we are all one people and no one is any better than anyone else. We just have some different views and that's okay. We're just not seeing that.

Jerry Fu: 13:36

Well, that's, that's tough. I mean, I, I was fortunate enough to have the chance to mentor a pharmacy student who came from a Russian Jewish family and the story she told me of the persecution her family dealt with. Um, yeah, you know, there's, there's nothing like it. Now,

Magic Barclay: 13:53

our final standard question, Jerry, is around weight and many people battle their weight one way or another. And often quite needlessly, stress can be a major factor in weight gain or in weight loss. So have you ever battled your weight? If so, how did you win the battle and what can you offer the listeners from your perspective?

Jerry Fu: 14:17

What I'm about to share is not something I would ever make up, and even then, I have friends who will refute the validity of the story, so take it for what it is. when I moved back to Houston 12 years ago, I actually gained about 35, 36 pounds. between moving to Houston in my thirties, and then also eating out two or three times a week. I gained weight that I did not expect to gain because before in my twenties, you know, I worked out several times a week, ate whatever I wanted. My metabolism was high and, you know, I liked wearing extra large shirts that filled in pretty well. And that was nice. I inherited some nice jeans from my, from my dad's side anyway. But yeah, when it hit my thirties and all of a sudden things started to slow down, I remember when I signed up for a gym membership and they noted the weight gain and I was like, no, that can't, that scale has to be wrong. And they said, nope, the scale is not the problem. And I said, Oh, like I, I had to admit some tough truths that day. So I joined a friend's free bootcamp that they were doing once a week. And then I started cooking, immediately cooking most of my meals. So that didn't make the weight gain go away immediately, but it kind of arrested the, wrong trend. Right. And it wasn't until I decided to start training for a half marathon, about two years later, where I was running three or four times a week. And that, in addition to my, majority home cooked diet, I started to see the weight come back down to something I was used to. And you know, my diet is still fairly strict now. And since I do most of my cardio and calorie burning through salsa dancing, you know, pandemic aside, it was, you know, thankfully, kept it fairly under control. and so, I mean, that's what I tell people now is first you need to inspect your diet it cuts. There's so much processed food out there that is not good for you and people just settle for it. Like I'll give a funny example. So at one point I bought like a healthy version of soy creamer for coffee, you know, here at work because Uh, you know, my texts like their coffee and they want some flavor in it. And so, um, I bought it and then they didn't use it. And they said, no, Jerry, just give us our coffee made or international delight, because that's what we're used to. And the funny thing is at one point, one of the technicians did some research on. What creamers were actually healthy and they found out that the one that I given them was actually the healthiest and that what they were doing, you know, with the regular creamers that they were used to were actually terrible for them and I just said, okay, you know, I, I can't help you. if you're not going to be more intentional, as long as you understand, you're making the conscious choice to settle for things just because they're familiar. at the same time, I understand, you know, people's genetics are different, right? I have. A good friend who's a type two diabetic because obesity runs in his family and you know, there's only so much you can do to help him lose weight and you know, he's done a fairly good job, you know, maintaining his weight given his circumstances and I think so on one hand, I hope people that are intentional to say, okay, what am I putting in my body? How am I taking care of my body? And at the same time they understand, hey, there's only so much I can do given my circumstances. So to find that balance, you know, it's different for everybody, but I would say, yeah, on one hand, be intentional and take care of the best self you can, and at the same time, give yourself grace, knowing that, hey, you know what, you can't do anything about, like, the genes that you inherit. Like, I recently found out, two or three of my relatives are actually colon cancer survivors. Which means, you know, I'm, I'm, I got to brace myself because, you know, the next two years, if I don't get checked out regularly, you know, I, I can, I know that there's nothing I could have done, right. It wasn't like, oh, I cut down all the processed food and, you know, but my genes are still going to set me up to fail. So let me be careful.

Magic Barclay: 18:14

Okay. We've covered a lot here, but let's talk about adapting leaders. Yeah. What is it that you do with your coaching and how do you help the people that come to you? Like what sort of techniques are you using?

Jerry Fu: 18:31

Yeah. the top of the line benefits are, clarity and next steps, the courage to actually do them. And then the closure that comes with. Resolved or navigated the difficult conversation. the specific framework that I give away on my website that I walk people through in order to give them. An increased chance of success when handling difficult conversations has five steps. So the first step is to imagine what a successful conversation sounds like. So let me back up for a second. So let's walk you through a scenario that taken a client through. All right. So we're overlaying a real life example over this framework. So a client came to me. And she told me, Hey, my boss called me after hours while I was at dinner with friends and I didn't pick up because number one, I was off the clock. Number two, I was busy the next day. He just blew up at me, said, Hey, how dare you? I don't think you're dedicated to this job. Like I need you to be, you know, if I need you, I need you. It doesn't matter how urgent the situation is. not picking up was, you know, entirely disrespectful. Right. And so she comes to me and she's asked me, how do I deal with this? Because I'm really upset with him. but I not sure how I can get this frustration out of my system without saying something I might regret or possibly getting fired. And so she's like, I know I'm not going to stick with this job forever, but I still need a couple more paychecks before I can, you know, successfully. exit with enough financial, flexibility. And so, yeah, step one, uh, I walk her through or any of my clients there. I asked them, you know, what would a successful conversation sound like? All right. Because if people go in there, I don't know how this is going to turn out. Right. If you don't even give the possibility that maybe this could actually go well, you're not going to dream up ways where it could go well. and so, you know, I asked her, do you want an apology? or do you want clear expectations around what a successful working relationship is? so that he can't hide in vague expectations and be passive aggressive when he wants to be, right? Because a lot of, a lot of manipulative bosses like to keep things vague so they, can say what they want without, consequence, right? and so She realized, okay, even if I don't get an apology, as long as I have clear expectations. So that way, he can't blindside me with this kind of thing again. I think that would be all right. Right. And so we came up with some ideas like, well, hey, you know, explaining to him that, even if I don't pick up trust that I'm going to get back to you as soon as as I'm able to, right. Because you could explain to him, Hey, what if I was at the hospital? You know, when my mom is dealing with a medical emergency, right, or a family emergency, right, you know, would you still be upset with me for not picking up? And so, it was trying to, in a subtle way, trying to get him to realize, you know what, maybe the story I'm playing out in my own mind is justified but not accurate, right? So, laying that on the table to say, hey, you know, if I don't pick up, just trust that, you know, I will, I will at least text you to say, hey, I'm, I'm occupied at the moment, but I will call you and have a moment, or something like that, right? We just want to give her some leeway for negotiation. The second step, in my framework is to have people drum up 10 seconds of courage to initiate a conversation, or at least schedule a conversation, right? And this step people love, when I've talked to other Podcast host or guests because they say, Oh, for conflict diverse people like myself, right? This is part of the reason this is so great is that I'm conflict diverse. And so the system is in place to make sure I don't fall back into bad habits. Because what happens when, you feel like you have to wait until you're brave enough to actually have the conversation. It probably won't happen, or it definitely won't happen soon enough. Right. And so if you take 10 seconds to pick up that phone, make that call, send that email, send that text. Hey, you know, can we, sort things out, you know, when's a good time for you? Some people want to set it in motion and then figure things out. Other people like to do their homework before they actually set the ball in motion and that's okay. Other ways. Fine. my steps can be shuffled around, but usually people just want to say, okay, let me get something on the calendar. Uh, so that that way I know I can't back out because you want to lock the door behind you and set the ball in motion so that way you can't backtrack. Third step is to script your critical moves, right? You want to script your critical phrases. Don't let them just rattle around in their head. You want to write them down on paper because number one, you want to be sure to include everything that you want to consider mentioning in the conversation. and then you can figure out what is the most essential. And then you can also, arrange it in a logical order, because you don't want the chance of forgetting something important if you let it rattle around in your head. So you want to get it on a paper so you can look at it objectively and again, yeah, get it organized. Hey, but that's not enough. step four, therefore, is to rehearse these critical moves, right? you want to train in the dojo before you spar on the street. You want to get some reps on the practice field before you have, uh, the big game day, right? And so. when you practice in front of a mirror and check your body language, Hey, how's my posture? Hey, you know, is my tone clear, calm and collected. Maybe I role play with the friends. Maybe I record myself on my phone so I can look at how I'm coming across. Right? And so this way you get to iron out your phrasing so you don't trip over your words in the moment. And then step five is to do it because the cost of not engaging is more cost of trying and failing. And so, yeah, just about every Situation that I've coached people through, involves this framework. So in some form or fashion, you can overlay this framework and just about anything, to increase your chances

Magic Barclay: 24:14

of success. I was thinking that just as you were talking that, yeah, you could apply this to family members or friendship groups or anything, not just, you know, a, a business situation.

Jerry Fu: 24:28

Exactly. Yeah. And there's plenty of them, plenty of other examples we can overlay if we, if, you know, people are interested. So, you know,

Magic Barclay: 24:36

Brilliant. Now what other things, Jerry, do we need to know about? Adapting leaders?

Jerry Fu: 24:45

The passion behind it, I think, is the first thing I want people to be aware of, because, for me, leadership. felt like it was beyond my grasp for the longest time, I would see people who seem to have good leadership instincts in like high school or college, and I would just be jealous of the fact that somehow, you know, I wasn't born with these things and, I just said, Well, you know, if I wasn't born with it, I guess I may never get it. I don't know how I'm supposed to get it if I wasn't born with it. And it wasn't until, 10 years ago when I was going through some really tough career Rollercoaster transitions where I saw leadership modeled for me and I saw how it brought out the best in me. And I just said, you know what, what if I could be a good leader? So I gave myself permission to actually maybe be good at this. And so, the passion is just to say, tell people, Hey, you know what? I wish someone had helped me realize that their opinion of me didn't have to become my opinion of myself. And I want to be the coach and trainer that I wish I'd had when I was struggling with this, unproductive mindset. So, that is the passion, because I know the struggles that most people that come from similar backgrounds that I've had, and I just want to, help them handle their challenges a little more effectively. They're not exempt from them. I can't spare them from them because if I'd spare them from them, they. It won't get stronger on their home. and yeah, my goal, on top of other things to know about my company, my goal is to work myself out of a job. If you are not better or where you need to be after maybe as long as two years coaching with me, you should fire me. Like I don't want to, you know, take people's money. you know, just because I offer him hope that I'm not going to follow through on, I want to help them get better as quickly as possible, so that, you know, They can send referrals, right? I'd rather have referral business than just lagging on going business. So, um, yeah, I want people to know I am passionate. I am transparent and I am a professional, even if I don't know the answer right then and there, I will look one up for you and I will make sure I follow through, to make sure that you get the value that you deserve if you hire me.

Magic Barclay: 26:55

Great integrity points there. I really do love that, that you want to coach yourself out of a job. I know I feel the same about my business and I think that's really important. We don't want to create dependent customers. That's part of our, our ethics. And so I really do applaud that. So we've covered a lot today. Is there something we haven't talked about, Jerry, that you feel the listeners need to

Jerry Fu: 27:22

hear? I think just the, the bigger theme of, Hey, let's talk about process, right? because when you realize that most of the worthwhile things in life come from a willingness to commit to a process. I think people are able to give themselves more grace and be kind to themselves, recognizing that they are a work in progress through this process. Hey, just the goal is not perfection. The goal is progress, right? Like with dancing. The more I learned about dancing, the more I realized I could learn about dancing. The more I studied leadership. the more I could learn about leadership. in fact, leadership was one of my greatest struggles and that was one of my greatest fascinations and I never expected that to happen. but now I, I've, bet my, I bet on my own ability to be a good leader, right? So, I just want people to understand. And so, you're willing, I'll go through a story real quick just to explain my own improvement with conflict resolution because, these are real moments. I have to live this out every day. So, the story I'm about to share is this. my second day on the job as a church class director, I was informed that one of the newer guys in the class was a sexually harassing woman in the class. And they just told me, Jerry, you're director now, you gotta handle it. It's like, you didn't give me a manual, Just handle it. And, uh, I just said, Oh my goodness, how am I going to do this? And so, you know, I managed to get the guy on the phone. Cause I had to do this while I was on vacation. And, uh, we'll call him Nick. Nick says, I don't know what they're talking about. I don't know what they're talking about. That's not me. I wouldn't have done anything like that. You know, I'm sitting there thinking on my feet, like, improv ing in the moment because I can't just say, Oh, well, I guess it must not that big of a deal. Sorry to bother you, Click, right? Like, I have to unpack this and, find a better resolution. And so I tell Nick, and I'm just like, Hey, so from my standpoint, there's three possibilities. And again, scripting my critical moves and kind of thinking on my feet in the moment and improv ing when, you know, my plan did survive attack by, by quote, the enemy. I said, Okay, Nick, there's there's two possibilities. One is that you are right and they are wrong. Like you're, uh, you're innocent and they, for some reason, don't like you. And so there must be some really unfortunate misunderstanding. But that's, but that's the worst, right? Just go talk to them, find out exactly what set them off. You apologize. And, you know, we're good, right? That's it. Oh, wow. That was really, you know, unfortunate. I didn't realize I came across that way. Yeah, won't happen again. Possibility number two is that you are lying and they are not, which means you, like, are doing some really inappropriate things and that needs to stop immediately and we're going to keep a pretty close eye. We're not going to kick you out because this is the church and we want to be as close as possible so that they understand that there's a standard that you need to honor if you're going to be a part of this group. Or option number three is that, you insist on your innocence, they insist that they are correct. Which means that it's now their word against yours. And then I have to ask you to leave because I've known them longer than I've known you. And he goes, Oh yeah, sounds like I need to go clear things up with them. It's like, okay, ma'am. Great. All right. And so I want people to know that you can't get better unless you go through the struggle. Like I. Had no idea how I was going to get a successful resolution out of this. It was just in the moment I needed him to just realize I wasn't going, I wasn't trying to single him out. I wasn't gunning for him. I needed him to just not avoid the situation and that if he is innocent, that he has a chance to prove himself. and you know, I'm happy to share that. It's just that, Hey, that's just one marker along the way, because you can't get better until you tried and done something and then giving yourself the chance to evaluate an effort that you made. And so. the only way they competence is their incompetence guys. So don't feel like you're being singled out. Don't think anything's beyond your reach. just start working on it and doing the work to get better. That's what I would say.

Magic Barclay: 31:27

Fantastic. Now, Jerry, before I let you go, we love freebies here. So what can you offer the listeners and where can they find it?

Jerry Fu: 31:36

Yeah. Yeah. So the five step framework that I went over in our episode today is available as a. A free download through my website. That website is www dot adapting leaders. com forward slash guide. G U I D E. it'll have a story walks you through five steps. In a little more vivid detail, and please enjoy that, that is entirely, free. Just give your email address and it'll, it'll come right to you.

Magic Barclay: 32:07

Fantastic. So that website

Jerry Fu: 32:09

was adaptingleaders. com.

Magic Barclay: 32:14

Brilliant, Jerry, thank you so much for your time. This has been a great conversation and I'm sure the listeners have gotten a lot out of it as have I. So thank you for your time.

Jerry Fu: 32:26

Yeah. Thanks for having me on. Look forward to the next time. Of course.

Magic Barclay: 32:30

And listeners, thank you for your time. We always appreciate when we hear that you've been listening. I've had another couple of people this week say to me, you know, I listened to your podcast and I got so much out of this person or that person. So. You know, I really do love those messages. Keep them coming on our Facebook at a magical life podcast. Go ahead and leave your reviews. We do read every single one of them. So thank you very much for now. Go forth and create your magical life.