Unplug, Unwind, Create Space Digitally with Daniel Sih

In this episode of "A Magical Life" podcast, host Magic Barclay interviews Daniel Sih, the author of "Spacemaker: How to Unplug, Unwind, and Think Clearly in the Digital Age." Daniel shares his journey of discovering the impact of digital overuse on our mental health, relationships, and overall well-being. He emphasizes the need to create intentional space in our lives by setting limits on technology use, planning patterns of unplugging, assigning rest before work, cultivating face-to-face relationships, and embracing silence for deep thought. Daniel's book provides practical tips and strategies to help individuals live a more balanced and holistic life in the digital age.

Key Takeaways:

1. The messages embedded within our devices shape the way we think and act. We need to be aware of the impact of technology on our worldview and habits.
2. Digital power is inherited and requires intentional use for positive impact. We should consider how we can use our digital power to help others.
3. Too much freedom and unlimited choice can be problematic. Setting life-giving limits on technology use leads to long-term freedom.
4. Adopting patterns of rest, relationships, and deep thought creates space for the things that matter in our lives.
5. The SPACE principles (Set Limits, Plan Patterns, Assign Rest before Work, Cultivate Community, Embrace Silence) guide us in creating intentional space in the digital age.

Daniel is an award-winning author, TEDx speaker and productivity expert with 20 years experience working in senior leadership and strategic consulting roles across Australia and the UK. 

His first book, “Spacemaker” won the American Axiom Business Book Award in 2023 for Work-Life Balance / Time Prioritisation, an Australian Business Book Award in 2021 for Personal Development, and several niche book awards. His newest book, “Raising Tech-Healthy Humans” is a best-selling parenting book to help parents reset their children’s tech-habits and give them a great start to life. 

Daniel is an accredited CliftonStrengths® Top 5 and Team coach with the South Pacific Strengths Network, and co-creator of Email Ninja eLearning®.

As a trainer, coach and keynote speaker, Daniel has worked with CEO’s, executives, and other senior professionals throughout Australia and beyond, ranging from global corporations and businesses to universities and non-profits. He has a broad professional history, including leadership roles in physiotherapy, health management, Christian ministry, and project management. 

Daniel has 3 children, 14 chickens and is the CEO of Spacemakers in Australia and Canada.

DoTERRA Wellness Advocate
At Wholistic Natural Health Australia, we often recommend the use of high quality essential oils.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

Magic Barclay: 0:59

Welcome back to a Magical Life. I'm your host, magic Barclay, and today Daniel c Rejoins us. Daniel is the co-founder of Space Makers, a productivity consulting group for busy leaders. He has had a previous life in healthcare and. If you didn't hear our last episode, he is the father of many chickens who don't lay many eggs, but include Dave the mullet chicken. Welcome back. Thanks Magic. And so, listen, I've got this book here and Very few people actually send me a physical book. I love it. And listeners, I will apologize cuz you're going to hear the pages turning and a whole lot of background noise, which I tend to try and not fill your ears with. But it's important because you need to know, I actually have this book here and it made a real dent in the way I saw my devices, my Samsung. Phone and I have nearly divorced. Nearly. Not quite

Daniel Sih: 2:11

Well that's a big deal. It is.

Magic Barclay: 2:14

And you know, to the point where it has a crack screen and I can't be bothered fixing it because I don't use it as much as I did. I don't rely on it. So listeners, you're probably thinking Magic's lost her mind and well, that could be possibly so. But let's get into this book. First of all, Daniel, what was the reason you wrote Spacemaker?

Daniel Sih: 2:41

I like a quote from Richard Bark. He says, we teach best what we most need to learn, and I love work. I'm an A type personality. I love starting new things and creating new projects, and I have always been someone who's wrestled with space in my life and yet something happened. When I got my iPhone and when I started to spend more time online, which mimics what I see in culture and research around me, uh, I suddenly realized just how full my life was and how much time I was gravitating towards this device that I would reach for constantly, you know, hundreds of times a day. And it was taking up all the rest of the space I had in my life to think and rest and plan and live differently. And I started to go on a journey to discover. What the research said and what my clients were saying about the impact of digital overuse on their mind, on their health, on their relationships. Not to be anti-tech, but to realize that actually if we don't disconnect from our devices nowadays, we may actually never be offline. And that's a new reality for humanity, particularly post covid. Therefore, what might it look like to make space in our lives by intentionally unplugging and putting in things in our life that matter and that can't be reproduced when we're on a screen so that we have a healthier, balanced, uh, and and more holistic life? And that's what the book's about.

Magic Barclay: 4:10

Great. Now, at the end of many chapters, you have a little segment here, something to think about, and I'm going to read you some of these because I want you to explain why this is important to the listeners and why they need to read the whole chapter to. Really get the most out of these little snippets. So here comes the first one, something to think about. How are the messages embedded within your devices shaping the way you think and act? Do the benefits of its use outweigh the drawbacks?

Daniel Sih: 4:45

Hmm. So this is one of my paradigm chapters. I, the book moves from the paradigm, so the beliefs and stories we tell ourselves around tech to the practices. Uh, so the actual physical. Tangible habits that you need to change in order to live, a more space filled life. And so in terms of the, beliefs, this is around technology and how the, the medium is the message and how the ideas embedded in tech technology themselves, even beyond the new design and the addictive nature of the apps, how that actually changes our worldview and shapes the way we live and think and act. And I love, Marshall McMahon and his work from the 1950s. This is a long time ago, where he basically says that when people put a television at the center of their room, irrespective of whether they were conservatives or progressives, irrespective of the programs that they watched, the very act of making the center of the room a device. Actually changed family culture forever. It changed the authority of the community. So rather than the authority being the local, uh, mayor or the the statesman, they ended up. Having the authority being people in Hollywood and, and centralizing that and, and rather than talking to each other face-to-face what they ate well, then obviously the, the box, the tube was actually shaping them. And so his stuff really was formative in the way I started to think about technology, realizing that actually. the device itself has an impact on our heart and our habits and our mindsets, which isn't bad, uh, not at all, but it's important to have awareness of how the idea embedded, let's say, in the iPhone actually shape us. and the idea of the iPhone at a fundamental level is multitasking. It is an amazing supercomputer. That can do multiple applications and multiple functions at the same time simultaneously. but the problem is when humans who aren't designed to multitask, who physically and physiologically can't multitask from a neurological perspective, when we use a device built on that idea constantly, well, we end up. Looking at the world in bite-sized chunks, flipping from one thing to the next, being distracted and allowing ourselves to, uh, run, understand, still constantly feeling like we need to fill our mind with new ideas and new stimulation, but not thinking deeply or reading deeply or conversing deeply in the way we used to. And so the idea behind the technology has shaped human behavior and that awareness is important as a starting point.

Magic Barclay: 7:20

Great. Here's the next something to think about. In what ways do you have power and how might you use digital power to help others?

Daniel Sih: 7:30

Yeah, so this is a chapter about digital power and the impact of power on our lives. And power is good, actually. I think power is important and we have too negative a view about power and how to use it. power in essence is the ability to make something good of the world or something bad of the world. And we need power in order to influence relationships in order to bring about positive or negative change. but there are two types of power. There's inherited power, which you just kind of get if someone gives it to you. Like, let's say you win the lottery and you're suddenly rich, uh, as opposed to, let's say, earn power, or develop power where, uh, like let's say someone developing a martial arts. They develop power, but the process of developing that power, and the, difficulty and sacrifice that leads to that power that you have, means you won't use it. It means you understand it and you are wise in when to activate your strength and when to. Not use it. And the challenge with digital power is it's almost all inherited. So it's given to us, uh, we have this incredible ability to communicate around the world, to share opinions, to influence, uh, and, and to like to see the world's information at. At our fingertips. And yet I don't believe as humans, we know how to use that power well, because most of us haven't had the sacrificial nature or the development of that power through years of practice. And so again, it's just recognizing the pros and cons of the power we have in our pockets and how we might use that power for good rather than for selfish gain.

Magic Barclay: 9:09

I'm just loving this. This is a whole new format for this podcast. I love it. So here's your next something to think about. Has there ever been a time when too much freedom or unlimited choice has been problematic for you? Mm-hmm.

Daniel Sih: 9:26

Well, I mean, you speak a lot about health and if you just think about the logic of limits. We know that setting life, giving logical limits is what leads to freedom. So in, in the area of health, you know, if you can obviously just lie on the couch and, I don't know, eat. Chocolate all day and never exercise. And in a sense, you're expressing your freedom to choose to not look after yourself. and that stuff's fun for a while, but if that's how you live all the time, well then obviously your body will end up feeling pretty gross and you'll lose your ability to have energy and to exercise and to live a long life in a healthy way. And so ultimately, The expression of unlimited freedom reduces your freedom in the health area. It's the same with, let's say, debt. You know, if you spend everything you have, yes, you feel free. But then when you're older, uh, your freedom is significantly limited because of debt. if you know you drive too fast, you can limit your free because of accidents. It's in every era of our life. The challenge with digital technology is we have this cultural belief that more is better and the unlimited freedom and unlimited choice means we don't reduce our technology use for adults. And it's illogical and it doesn't work in the real world. And there's a point where digital overuse has the same types of consequences as, let's say, overeating, uh, smoking, or maybe. Overdrinking is probably a better example. Uh, and yet the, the, the damaging impact of digital overuse often happens slowly over the march of time in our brains, in the way our brain rewires itself from a neuroplastic perspective so that we end up feeling anxious and tired and wired. Our relationships change, the depth of our thinking is impacted. Uh, it, it's almost like we lose our ability to recognize. That we've changed in a negative way because those changes happen inside our brain. And we need a, a serious conversation in our culture, not just about screen time for children, but about what digital overuse is doing to us as adults and how we might institute, voluntary life giving limits in how we use our technology in order to experience genuine long-term freedom.

Magic Barclay: 11:44

I think you've just said that so well, and excuse me, listeners, for clearing my throat. A moment ago I was rereading something as Daniel was talking, and I don't know, just this whole immune reaction started and I'm actually going to. Read that next thing to you now because it really struck a chord with me. So the next something to think about is what is one pattern that you can adopt across work or life to create space for the things that matter? Are you able to break this down into a plan and make a start this week? Now this one actually got me, and like I said, just caused that little issue in my throat a moment ago because, I'm all about patterns. I love patterns. You know, I treat my health with a pattern. I use patterns when I'm looking at, uh, what my client's health is telling me with their intake forms. And, you know, this was all about creating space, obviously, for the things that matter and. You know, I tell my clients all the time, adopt a morning routine. If the only thing you can do for your health adopt a morning routine. So the reason why I was feeling a bit guilty and had an immune reaction was I haven't been outside yet today, and that is part of my morning routine. So, Daniel, can you answer this? Something to think about? What is one pattern that you can adopt across work or life? To create space for the things that matter. And are you able to break this down into a plan, make a start this week? Yeah. What was, what was the reason for this one?

Daniel Sih: 13:26

Oh, I'm, I think exactly the same way. As you think with regards to habit change and, and creating wellness and balance in our lives, we must start with very small actionable habits, uh, that allow us to live according to the values we wanna live and, and to experience freedom long-term. Uh, the challenge in the digital age is that, Most of us haven't really thought deeply about our digital habits. We haven't, uh, looked at our digital habits in the way that, let's say we've looked at our eating habits or maybe our physical habits, and we haven't recognized just how much time we're spending online and the impact that those decisions are having on all of our life, our mental health, our relationships, our physical health, et cetera. And so, yeah, the, the idea behind that question and really the whole. The last section of the book is to help us create intentional patterns of unplugging from technology each year, uh, each week and each day in order to think clearly again to, uh, rest deeply mentally and physically. And to experience closer relationships with people who matter, which are the three areas I reckon are lost with digital overuse. And there are many practical habits, uh, like starting and ending the day without a phone. That would be a daily habit, so that you bookend each day with 15 to 20 minutes where you are not online to think deeply and to prepare the for the day or to close down the day. Or a digital free meal, for example, to reconnect with loved ones without constant notifications, uh, or weekly habits like having a day off without technology, uh, or a significantly reduced day of technology in order to rest your mind in a way that can't happen when you are repeating the same neurological habits as you experience day by day, week by week at work, uh, or an annual habit like booking your holidays first and making it tech free, at least in part. But all of these practices begin with a single next step, and you just have to work out what's the next step for you.

Magic Barclay: 15:37

Agreed. And something that I was already leaning towards before reading this book was turning my phone off notifications. So it was already on silent most of the time, and it's never vibrated because I just think, whoa. That's annoying. But after reading the book, I actually put a post on my Facebook and said to all my friends, please don't send me a message unless it's something really important. If you need to call me, leave a message there and I'll get to it and prioritize when I need to speak to you. It's nothing personal, but I don't wanna be attached to my phone, and that was something I put out there. People ring me now. I don't know, cuz my phone doesn't ring. But I'll check my voicemail and I will prioritize who I need to talk to. And you know, if it's urgent, they will send me a Facebook message and I'll go, okay, that pops up. But as soon as it pops up, I don't jump onto it. I see it and I go, all right, on my next break I can allocate two minutes to look at those messages. And so that was something that. You know, like I said, I was already leaning to it, but your book kind of pushed me more into the let people know I'm not on tap all the time. That just doesn't happen.

Daniel Sih: 17:01

And what I love about what you've described is I don't actually talk about that specifically in the book. So I love that once people start to recognize the paradigm of tech and uh, and obviously some of the things you could do, then you'll create your own strategies in order to make your life more space filled. And I mean, what, what you've done is you've started to shape the path to determine what you are going to respond to and what. You're not going to respond to it. I've probably done something quite similar in the sense of, I, I'm just really slow at responding to Facebook Messenger and WhatsApp. I'm fast at responding to email and phone calls and they're, that's because they're the channels I prefer and I can control them better because of my habits and my practices. and I, I don't have notifications on even for emails. So I process in blocks of time and not all day, which is our, one of our email ninja training habits. Where rather than continuously scan new text messages, email notifications throughout the day and responding in real time, like a phone, I have large blocks of time, you know, one to two hours at the least throughout each day, where I'm not scanning new emails or new text messages. Uh, and I respond when I'm ready to. Um, there are ways in which people who need to contact me, friends and family can get through straight away. But clients have to wait unless I'm ready to communicate. And, uh, yeah. But none of that's in my book. So I think it's great that you've taken the next step and, and you're controlling the media and how much it shapes you.

Magic Barclay: 18:36

That is what the book encouraged me to do. No, it's not in the book, but that's what I took away from it in creating space from. My phone, as I said, we've almost divorced now. Your next something to think about, what is one activity that leaves you with a great sense of satisfaction, even if it requires mental, relational, or physical effort? And how might you do more of this?

Daniel Sih: 19:02

Hmm. I like how Cal Newport says that, uh, there are two types of leisure there. There are low quality leisure activities like. Watching Netflix or scrolling, TikTok. but they, they're like digital candy, you know, they don't take a lot of mental energy, but they actually leave you more drained and you don't walk away feeling refreshed and whole. Uh, and then you've got high quality leisure activities like doing a craft or playing the piano or, uh, going for a walk or reading a book or journaling, which require actually, In many ways, more energy, more creativity, more effort, but you walk away feeling mentally refreshed and spiritually full and relationally alive. and yet because we're so smashed and we're so tired, we just gravitate towards the digital candy and we reinforce this pattern of never really resting well. Uh, For me personally, I like chainsawing wood. maybe that's a Tasmanian thing, I don't know. But I've got two acres of land and I don't chop trees down. They fall, but I've just got so much land that I'm constantly chopping wood, and I find that it's. Meditative because I can't think too much about ideas when I'm chainsawing because it's dangerous and I have to focus on the moment. Uh, it's physical, which is completely different than what I do for work, which involves typing and swiping a screen and communicating online indoors on a, on a computer. and yeah, so I get fresh air. I get to produce something that I love to produce, you know, wood for my family so we can light our fires. Uh, And, and so the kind of things that energize you aren't necessarily the things that energize others, but you need to find those things and major on them. And to do that, you need to spend less time, most likely, on the low quality, technology-based, screen-based activities that are taking up so much of your time.

Magic Barclay: 20:56

Exactly. And alright, here we are. We're at Discover the Principles and you've got the acronym of space. Can you explain what that is and why it's so important to us?

Daniel Sih: 21:11

Yeah. So after the paradigm change where you realize, yep, my story needs to shift in order to change my habits, uh, I put the principles in the middle because. Uh, there are timeless principles that work, and if you can't. Adopt them. It's gonna be hard to shift your day-to-day practices. And so these timeless principles are not just values, they just align with reality. I like how HH Pharma says that if you go against the grain of the universe, you get splinters. And uh, I would believe that, I believe from the research and from my experience, these are five principles that. We all need to live by. So one is set limits. So that's again, the idea, the idea that freedom comes by setting life, giving limits, and in this situation on our technology, in order to give us long-term freedom. so s for set limits, P for plan patterns. When you set limits, How might you orientate your tech and non-tech behaviors in a habitual way so you create predictable patterns in your life. So that's the small habit change stuff we've already talked about. Uh, a is for assigned rest before work. So that's the recognition that, uh, humans work best when we are rested mentally and spiritually and physically. So how do we assign or put in rest? In our calendars before we put in work, uh, and, and work from a place of rest rather than, you know, work until we're totally exhausted and then crash on the couch and then think about rest as an afterthought. so it's about rest, see is about cultivating community. There's lots of research that says face-to-face relationships transform our health, our happiness, uh, actually give us a longer life. And yet none of the benefits of face-to-face community in terms of health longevity are reproduced by social media, and therefore, we need to recommit to regular. In-person relationships away from a screen in the mix of using social media as part of our connection platforms. Uh, and the last one is embrace silence. The value of contemplation, of silence, of thinking deeply. So again, it's about rest. It's about relationships and it's about deep thought, uh, spiritually, mentally, uh, in order to allow our brains to rest and to know who we are. So those space principles, it's an acronym, obviously, or an acrostic, S P A C E. Those space habits or space principles, guide us towards the practices.

Magic Barclay: 23:40

Fantastic. Now the book is a Spacemaker, how to Unplug, unwind, and Think Clearly in The Digital Age by Daniel C. It is Australian Business Book Awards best personal development book of 2021 and best technology book finalist in 2021. Thank you so much for sharing this book with us. Daniel,

Daniel Sih: 24:05

thank you for having me on your show. It's been fantastic to have a conversation with you.

Magic Barclay: 24:11

Thank you and uh, listeners, I encourage you to go and grab this book. Jump onto Daniel's website, www.space makers.com au. Coming up in future episodes, we have some more fantastic guests for you, but for now I really do urge you to rush out and get this book because it's a game changer. I love it. And I never say that about. Books cause I read so many every week. But this one really will help you make some changes. Maybe you can divorce your Samsung phone as well. Sorry, Samsung Love Affair's over for listeners for now, thank you for your time. Go forth and create your magical life.